Interview with Rasiel Suarez Today, Tyler R. Tichelaar of Reader Views is excited to interview Rasiel Suarez, who is here to discuss his new book “ERIC II: The Encyclopedia of Roman Imperial Coins.” Rasiel Suarez is a specialist in ancient Roman coins. As a child he collected stamps and coins, like many other kids his age, but eventually left these collections dormant despite retaining an avid interest in history and geography. This interest eventually led to a Bachelor’s in Political Science from the University of Rhode Island. During the 90’s, trips to Europe, and later the advent of eBay, rekindled his interest in coins. In 2002, he and his wife founded Dirty Old Coins, a company that brought the hobby to thousands of mainstream families throughout the world. In 2005 the release of “The Encyclopedia of Roman Imperial Coins” (ERIC for short) was well received by fans of the series and the initial run sold out soon after. November of 2010 saw the publishing of “ERIC II,” the fully revised and long awaited sequel, which promises to be a landmark achievement in Roman numismatics. The author lives with his family in Olympia, Washington. Tyler: Welcome, Rasiel. As a coin collector myself, I’m excited to interview an author who knows a lot about coin collecting. To get started, will you tell us a little bit about how you got started with coin collecting?
Tyler: What made you decide to write a book about Roman Imperial Coins? Rasiel: Back then there was relatively little up-to-date information about the coins and efforts to bring what there was into the digital age had just begun. I had gotten a number of books and visited some of these earlier websites but had that inner conviction that I could do better myself. I didn’t know I was going to write a book yet, but I had begun the initial phase of research by putting together a huge database of coins from past sales and then published this initial effort online. It proved to be a good starting point from which to take the project offline in the form of a book which could be used by anyone with a passing interest in Roman coins, as opposed to a scholar or an advanced collector. The first edition took two years to complete as I found time in between work and family. The second edition, however, consumed just about every waking hour of my life for the next five years! Tyler: I admit I was a bit confused by the title ERIC II at first, but then realized it’s an acronym for “Encyclopedia of Roman Imperial Coins” which is the subtitle. And the II is because it’s the second edition. What additions or changes have been made from the first edition? Rasiel: Initially, I did have in mind more modest goals for a second edition. There were many editing errors and the catalog was very basic. I had in mind to correct the errors and bring it a degree closer along the road of being fully comprehensive. However, I became disillusioned with this plan since deep down what I really wanted was to author a definitive reference, one I would use instead of any other. Except for sections of the introduction and the general format, this second edition is essentially remade from the ground up and includes new features which were asked for by the collecting community whom I constantly engaged. It is also the first time a Roman coin book includes a full survey of the coinage of the Byzantine Empire. Tyler: Can you give us a basic definition of what qualifies as a “Roman Imperial Coin”? For example, what is the timeframe of the coins discussed, and does Imperial only mean coins with Roman emperors on them? Rasiel: Yes. Loosely speaking, a Roman coin is any which was made by the Romans. You can’t beat that definition. However, numismatists mark several important divisions. Prior to the age of emperors there was the Roman republic which had developed an extensive coinage. The so-called Imperatorial period deals with the coinage of the intervening years between the latter days of the Republic, when Julius Caesar had all but become a de facto emperor, until it ceased to be an independent body at the time Octavian wrested control over Roman lands and became known thereafter as Augustus. Finally, there are Roman Provincial coins which were those coins minted outside of Italy during the Imperial age and which were meant for regional circulation. These bear the portraits of the current emperor while leaving the rest of the coin’s details and designs up to local taste. In all cases there are common denominators that differentiate the groups. A Roman Imperial coin in nearly every case will be one that carries the portrait of an emperor or that of a relative and has a legend written in Latin. Tyler: So, in terms of years, are we talking from 753 B.C. when Rome was founded until 1453 A.D. when Constantinople fell? Rasiel: Not quite that far back. The history of coins dates back to only about 600 B.C. and the first Roman coins don’t appear until several hundred years later. By about 200 B.C. Romans had already developed a sophisticated currency. On the other end of the scale, while extremely rare, the Byzantines did produce coins up until the bitter end and a spinoff state, the obscure Trebizond kingdom, takes this further by several decades. In all, the Roman numismatic legacy stretches nearly two thousand years! Tyler: Rasiel, I think I’ve read that Roman coins were used by other nations after Rome fell; is that correct? I mean, were they legal tender in medieval Europe or Eastern Europe after Constantinople fell, or did other countries have their own currencies and not use these coins at all? Rasiel: It’s hard to define “legal tender” when speaking of medieval Europe. More likely than not in most cases hoards of Roman-era coins recovered into the nineteenth century were unfortunately melted and reused. Copper, as mentioned before, was not typically traded in coin form and likely wound up being used to make cannon and statues. In a pinch, at an unofficial level, foreign coins have filled in where local currencies were unavailable. There are reports of Roman coins having been used sporadically including, oddly enough, during the Civil War! Tyler: Rasiel, as a coin collector myself who admittedly only has one Roman coin, I was surprised by how affordable many Roman coins are considering how old they are. Would you say that Roman coins are fairly affordable for the beginning collector? Rasiel: Absolutely. This is one of the big “shocks” many collectors and non-collectors discover, including myself when I started. It just doesn’t occur to most of us, who get a glimpse of antiquities only through textbooks or the rare visit to a museum, that they could be available to just anyone and especially when often they’re so cheap. The reason why they’re so affordable is twofold: just as now, Romans made some coins which weren’t worth much to begin with and they made, it is estimated, hundreds of millions of them during the course of over five centuries. The loss of some small change to a Roman would not have been any more a major concern than it might be to you and me to lose a nickel. Some were purposefully buried by their owners in secret places only for that secret to die with them and others rest where they fell in a careless moment. Yet countless others sit on the Mediterranean seafloor right now, the coppers and silvers clumped into fused masses or rusted away while the gold ones still gleam as new after millennia, just waiting for the catch basin of a submarine robot to pick them up! Tyler: How do Roman coins get into the hands of collectors? Are archeologists constantly finding more and selling them to collectors, and does that affect the value of them as more and more are discovered? Rasiel: Archeologists aren’t in the business of releasing their finds into the public except under special circumstances. The majority of the time they’re instead recovered by metal detector hobbyists who then sell them to traders who gather enough of them to sell into the dealer market. These “uncleaned” coins are sold in bulk in parcels often totaling tens of thousands of coins which are sorted according to size and quality and then marketed to dealers and coin collectors. While millions of coins have been discovered since the introduction of mass-market metal detectors in Europe, starting in the early 1990s there has been an explosion in the number of new collectors and Roman history fans ready to sop up the supply. Now that the easiest locales have been worked over the supply is dwindling while the demand has stayed strong which has steadily pushed the cost up over the last decade. Still, the most commonly available bronzes remain quite affordable and this is not expected to change much in the coming years. Tyler: Why did you decide to create an “encyclopedia” of Roman Imperial Coins? I assume that “encyclopedia” means it covers far more than just a Roman coin collecting book would cover? Rasiel: Well, honestly, it was just a handy acronym in honor of my first son Eric. But, with the goal of trying to include everything relevant about the emperors and their coins, not many other suitable titles came to mind. The Roman Coin Bible? Roman Coins for Dummies? Too hackneyed. Tyler: Do you think coin collecting is a viable venue for investing for the future, or should the collector focus primarily on collecting as a hobby based on an interest in the artistic appearance of coins or a love for history? Rasiel: There sure are investment-grade Roman coins, as there are coins elsewhere, and the budget of even multi-millionaires can quickly be exhausted by chasing prized specimens. Purely seen as investments, all numismatically valuable coins tend to appreciate in value during economic downturns. This closely parallels the capital flight from “paper” investments like stocks into the hard investments which include precious metals and art. The problem, and this is common to all coins, is that the market isn’t liquid enough to commoditize. Slight variations in a coin’s condition or date, the sort that the typical investor could care less about, can often make for dramatic differences in value. Worse, even when a buyer is found, few coins consistently sell for more at each new sale. The double-whammy of poor liquidity and uncertain appreciation are enough to keep most investors away. Still, regardless of their attraction as investments, there is never a shortage of buyers for top quality rare coins of any era. Tyler: Rasiel, most coin books I’ve read provide charts and approximate values of coins, based on fair, good, very good etc. ratings. Is “ERIC II” helpful for people who want to determine how much their coins are worth? Rasiel: I struggled with this question for a long time. The first edition, in keeping with something with “encyclopedia” airs, left pricing information out altogether. Eventually I found a system I could live with for coming up with a halfway accurate look at how really to value coins. My approach involved tallying end prices for many thousands of coins and then sorting all this data to come up with cost averages. Even so, while this information is included on the denominations known for each emperor, the usefulness of the data is still questionable. When you can buy a coin today for $100 from the corner shop and sell it later on eBay to get only $20 (or perhaps $500) how do you determine a meaningful value? Then, to cloudy things further, there is the issue of grading as you noted which in the case of ancient coins takes on a new dimension since, these having been handmade, have characteristics more than just wear to take into consideration. Still, vague as it is, a newcomer is served by noticing general pricing trends so that, for example, he or she will learn right away that a coin of Caligula is worth more than one of Constantine in most cases. Tyler: Why would Caligula be more valuable than Constantine? Is it like an emperor popularity contest? Would Julius Caesar outsell Vespasian because he’s better known, just like in the U.S. Lincoln would be more popular than Benjamin Harrison? Rasiel: Based on their popularity, some emperors are sought out more which does to some degree influence the supply-demand chain, but in most cases the real culprit has much more to do with the extant number of available coins in the marketplace for that emperor. Emperors who reigned for long periods of time simply had more time to make coins than did short-lived ones. Constantine enjoyed thirty years on the throne compared to Caligula’s turbulent four. In addition, Constantine’s era was plagued by an inflationary cycle that forced the minting of many cheap small coins as opposed to the comparatively sedate pace of output during Caligula’s reign. There are many other factors to consider, but generally speaking, the most important one will be the raw number of years that emperor had control over the treasury. A few unfortunate emperors had this control for only a few months, in some cases just days, making for only a handful number of surviving coins. These, of course, are extremely valuable and sought after today. Tyler: Has Roman coin collecting been popular for a long time, or has it only been in recent years that more people have grown interested in Roman coins? Rasiel: A Roman historian noted that Augustus himself had taken an interest in coins as keepsakes and would hand them out to friends and dignitaries. The evidence on the coins themselves suggest that while the majority were intended as nothing but cash, a few were issued in such limited quantities and with such care of manufacture that they were every bit the equivalent of modern presentation pieces meant to be kept rather than spent. Often one sees gold coins, expensive in their own day, being incorporated into jewelry only the very rich could have afforded. Even the smallest value coins of the late empire can sometimes be found holed or altered, giving indication that the general citizen took a special interest. It seems to me all but a certainty that Romans, particularly the wealthy and learned, would have at least on occasion put together bona fide collections considering their love of art and imported goods. Indeed, it’s not for nothing that coin collecting is called the “hobby of kings” as it was only the wealthy who had the means to nurture pastimes in the first place. Tyler: For people interested in collecting Roman coins, do you have any advice for finding reputable dealers and making sure they are not overcharged for coins? And what about for people selling their Roman coins? What are the best avenues for doing so? Rasiel: My advice would be that the safest way to start out is by buying a few low-cost coins to get a feel for what they’re like. If the bug doesn’t catch, then little is lost and an interesting curio can be passed on to someone who does. For the rest, it will likely take root in the form of trying to find out more about who is the person on that Roman coin and eventually branch out from there into specialties and themes and goals and so on. While my own company, Dirty Old Coins, specializes in products for this “early phase” demographic, the truth is that there are many online storefronts where this can be done, the biggest of which is eBay. Buying on eBay carries a modest risk of getting burned with a fake (or burned some other way), but if the feedback is high and the overall cost of the coin is low for the first few transactions, there is little to lose in trying to find out whether the hobby is of interest or not. And, of course, you can always sell your coins the same way. I’ve noted before how every day there are genuine ancient coins on eBay being sold for as little as a dollar! Tyler: Do buyers need to be concerned about counterfeit Roman coins, either coins that people in Roman times counterfeited, or more likely, probably people today who counterfeit and sell them? Rasiel: In both cases, yes to a degree. In the first instance, the contemporary counterfeits are quite collectible despite the fact that they were still ancient. In many cases the only thing that betrays their being counterfeit is that they used blanks of scrap metal coated with silver with time and wear eventually revealing this core beneath, but they are otherwise indistinguishable from the real deal. Modern counterfeits are not made to deceive the recipient from a little precious metal but to defraud collectors. It is surprisingly difficult to a modern counterfeiter to get the right look and feel so the great majority of fakes are obvious enough to fool only beginners. They are, in fact, often called “tourist fakes” because most who have any experience can pick them out. The more dangerous fakes are typically high pressure casts based on originals, then artificially aged or altered to appear authentic. While even experts will occasionally be duped, very few make it past the screen of numerous numismatists who are on the lookout. The best recourse for someone with this concern is either to buy from reputable and well-established dealers or to minimize the risk by buying the most affordable coins until one gains an understanding of what genuine ancient coins are like. In the book are shown common types of fakes and advice on how to avoid falling for them. Taking these precautions into consideration, no one need be overly anxious about this aspect. Tyler: While “ERIC II” would obviously be very educational for the beginning coin collector, what would make it enjoyable for someone well-versed in Roman coins? Rasiel: As collectors and their collections grow, it’s often the case that they become specialized. One of the typical goals of someone starting out may be the next-to-impossible aim of completing a type set of one coin from each of the over 100 Roman emperors. Once the staggering cost of acquiring some of the rarer emperors becomes evident, then some other captivating goal usually takes its place. Many go on to collect Greek or Chinese or what-have-you with that first Roman coin having served as the starting seed. ERIC II’s strength lies in making the most frequently needed data available in an easy, up-to-date and compact format without bogging down into the dry, quasi-scientific writing that is often the hallmark of numismatic literature. It is, I hope, the perfect starting point for the newer enthusiast, yet as an everyday tool for dealer and seasoned collector alike, it should also replace much of the need to refer to the body of older Roman numismatic literature. Tyler: Rasiel, does the book discuss how to take care of your coins? For example, I know people buy little cardboard square containers for coins, or special books, although I once had a penny cardboard book whose paper had some sort of chemical reaction with the coins and discolored them. What is the best way to preserve Roman coins, and how concerned do you have to be about touching them with your fingers, or using certain cleaning agents? Rasiel: At the risk of this sounding self-serving, my Dirty Old Coins kit is the only commercially developed product that focuses directly on the restoration and conservation of Roman coins. However, it is luckily not a necessity by which all collectors need to overly concern themselves with since a great portion of coins traded have already been properly restored and once to this stage normal care ensures that they remain stable. Bronzes are the most delicate. Once cleaned correctly, they will form a patina that helps seal in the core from corrosion. Depending on the coin’s chemistry and the environment under which this patina formed some take on strikingly beautiful hues that make for handy cost premiums. Silver, and especially gold, coins are far more stable and require even less specialized care in order to maintain their beauty. The second part of your question, how to store and display them, varies according to individual taste. Many do put them in the cardboard cutouts which can go in shoeboxes or albums. Others have coin furniture with compartmentalized trays. And many other custom solutions to suit. Those Whitman-type penny folders, however, are one exception that is unsuitable for ancient coins because they were made by hammer and anvil, resulting in coins that are not perfectly circular—they just don’t fit! Tyler: Rasiel, beyond coins, this book is much, much more; it’s a book I think anyone interested in Roman history would find fascinating. Will you tell us about some of the highlights and visual aspects of “ERIC II”? Rasiel: Writing a hobby book, one that wishes to inspire learning rather than be a mere lookup guide, has to engage the reader in a number of ways. What a pity, I thought ten years ago, that I should have a book showcasing gold and multi-hued coins in black and white. What a shame that this author has put so little effort into organizing the information in an easy-to-find manner, that the other has written as though we’re all PhD’s. Unfortunately, in the old textbook paradigm at least, a serious work apparently has to carry a serious tone too while making the information actually useful and easy to grasp beneath the dignity of an expert. At the other end of the scale are the summary efforts meant to introduce newcomers where a good opportunity is wasted by primitive presentation or subject matter that is at any rate not compelling enough to catch the lasting attention of the casual reader. To avoid this pitfall, “ERIC II” uses color photos wherever possible, not just of the coins but of any subject whatever that I can tie in to that specific chapter so as to give the perspective needed to bring the subject alive. For the comparatively sparse text, I strove to use a style of language that is not far from conversational yet not dumbed down to the point of being insulting either; my aim, of course, being to get the message across clearly to a diverse target audience. My acid test in gauging whether I hit the mark was in having it be browsed by people who could care less about coins and see how long it held their attention. I’m relieved that it’s been so far so good! Tyler: I can only imagine how much work went into this book, not just in research, but layout, photographs, printing. What was the most challenging part of writing and producing “Eric II”? Rasiel: Those long lists of coins that often stretch across a dozen pages or more were, I’m not going to lie, pure hell. Imagine writing something like a phone book from scratch except that for each new number you put down, you have to verify the information and do a number of cross-references to other numbers. And if you add an out-of-sequence number or find an error, all the rest of the numbers have to be updated. That’s a fairly close analogy. Since my second son is autistic, perhaps his mother’s dry observation that I am as well has some weight. How else to explain my ability to compile these lists day after day after year? The bios and the pics were a piece of cake, the reward for completing the list on each section! Tyler: Since the Roman Empire existed for so long, and especially when you incorporate the Byzantine Empire in, what were some major changes in coinage (how they looked, what they were made out of, how they were used) over the centuries? Rasiel: The appearance and substance of a nation’s coins directly reflects the technical and economic achievements of the issuing civilization. This has held true all the way up into very recent times as we slowly but inexorably move away from coins altogether under the dual pressures of inflation and virtual money. The coins of the Romans were rather unsophisticated during the Republican era, big and realistically detailed at the height of the Pax Romana and in step with its long and gradual decline a parallel decline in the level of artistry as well as the size and even the level of craftsmanship. The nadir was reached post-Fall in the dark ages when urban centers were nearly non-existent. Without cities there was little trade that had need of currency so the few coins made during this period are invariably awful, if viewed purely in terms of artistic competence, with designs which were barely recognizable. Meanwhile the Byzantine state, headed by kings still affecting the title of Roman emperor, made coins that though ratty and monotonous, were still the vanguard in terms of high culture compared to their nation neighbors. It would not be until the fifteenth century during the Renaissance that once again skilled artists began to master the engraving arts. Tyler: Since Byzantine coins are included, did they vary significantly from coins produced say in England, France, or even Muslim lands that were contemporary medieval countries of the time? Rasiel: In many cases those Byzantine coins did trade in those lands, at least at the high levels of government, the military and the social elites. The early Muslims for years made close copies of the Byzantine coins too before finding their own expressive vein. But mostly, again, few coins were being minted outside of the Byzantine borders as trade was severely diminished across Europe. Starting in the early middle ages, when the Byzantines had weakened to the point of irrelevance, the nascent states of Europe abandoned gold and copper coins to make do with scrappy, foil-like silver pennies. And these were deemed sufficient for hundreds of years. Tyler: Rasiel, I usually don’t ask people about page-counts or price, but both are substantial for ERIC II. In fact, the book is priced at $150.00 so it’s obviously for the serious collector. Should coin collectors view it as an investment for which they’ll get return on their coins by knowing more about it, and can you quickly summarize any additional information we haven’t covered that’s included in this 1,481-page book? Rasiel: The book is, unfortunately, not cheap by anyone’s measure and the reason lies in the fourfold cost of color vs. b&w printing coupled with the sheer page count. However, it’s considered a bargain compared to the thousand dollars worth of books that the venerable Roman Imperial Coinage series costs, which ERIC II used as its anchor blueprint and ostensibly competes with. Still, I do regret that the economies of scale don’t make for a truly inexpensive book. In the end I can, and do, caution prospective buyers that the purchase of a book like this is a lot of money to put into a hobby whose interest has a questionable life expectancy. Of course, one can always resell it along with their coins (and thankfully recoup most or all of the initial investment) but it’s still worth the disclaimer to think twice before jumping in head first. There are much cheaper starter guides with which one can gauge how lasting of an interest they have. I started out with a $30 dollar copy of David Van Meter’s “Handbook of Roman Imperial Coins” which I used constantly and can highly recommend as a getting-your-feet-wet introduction. Tyler: Do you foresee “ERIC II” becoming an ebook in the future, which would allow for the color to be retained while reducing the printing costs? Rasiel: It’s one of my most asked questions and I want to say yes. Even though the data files are nearly a gigabyte, making for one mammoth ebook, there are no major technical challenges to overcome. As a proof of concept, the pdf’s are currently being reviewed on an iPhone, and I expect that further development can enhance the experience. As a business venture it remains to be seen whether, when, and how this should be done. Tyler: Rasiel, I have to ask, do you have a favorite Roman coin, and what makes it your favorite? Rasiel: Odd as it may sound I own relatively few Roman coins because I never outgrew the initial desire to get a coin from each of the emperors that I spoke of earlier. Having reached the halfway goal and hobbled with a pauper’s budget, it’s hard to make progress. Some day, I would love to own an Aureus, the golden granddaddy of Roman coins, but since a decent one costs around five grand, give or take a couple, it’s going to have to wait a little longer! Tyler: I hope you sell enough copies of “ERIC II” to get yourself that Aureus, Rasiel. Thank you again for the interview today. Before we go, will you tell us about your website and what additional information may be found there about “ERIC II: The Encyclopedia of Roman Imperial Coins”? Rasiel: Sure. The project is not finished by any means. I am constantly in touch with my readers as I prepare for future editions and work out the bugs from this one. Anyone wanting to find out more can visit www.dirtyoldbooks.com.
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